That is, spme pretension or a clutch like system. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. While the motor is both more sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano has done brilliantly to offer usable control of that power. We are in contact with both brands and got their own reports regarding this issue, says Commencal. Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. - Lightweight and small form factor When we make fun of others, its because we are not happy w ourselves. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. Don't all e-bikes feature walk assist? The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. It's a similar level of feeling to Gen. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. oooof! Non-recommended 3rd party cranks can make a crack in the spindle because the difference in design from Shimanos crank causes increased stress around the spindle hole. Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! I do not have a car. I also have a YT Decoy with Shimano E8000 motor. Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. It isnt a huge difference, but sometimes its just enough for your rear wheel to make it up and over a stubborn tree root or rock ledge. On my older gen Bosch motor with a 500wh battery I can get about 30 miles out of a battery charge if I only turbo up the steepest climbs and do the other bits in low/mid power settings (and I'm about 100kg's / 16 stone which sucks battery). I'd do way more on a big day. e*thirteen is one of the biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. "Unquestionably, Shimano has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the market". Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. The Levo SL? Just got my first 29er. "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. So far so good. The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. They must be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed. You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. Thus, I could ride a few feet with power then the motor would cut off. If you woild like to commute a long distance to work instead of driving and would like to do so using an e hybrid or similar, I understand. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! Going the right direction in weight reduction. Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. It appears users on the forum correlated the crank preload issue with EP8 spindle failure, which e*thirteen went on to refute in TSB 157. At 52+ lbs, you're going to be using that motor every pedal stroke. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. Despite the musclier performance, weve had excellent results in terms of range, with the Bosch motor regularly achieving more miles and elevation over EP8. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. It's kinda frustrating. Step 2 - Identify if preload caps have a pre-applied threadlocker patch and apply if necessary. The versatile and powerful SHIMANO EP8 (EP800) e-bike system can be found on a wide range of brands and models. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. I feel like I've been missing out on so much! Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and we're inclined to believe that claim. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. Just kidding! Great for climbing, on the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse. Overall it is a very refined system though. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. Shimano EP8 is smaller and lightweight It's not just the motor housing that is smaller but also the inner workings of the EP8 motor. Hopefully we will have a system with little weight penalty in a few years. I tested a few Merida bikes with Shimano motor and they have some bugs in first versions,quite annoying stupid things force you to reset the bike sometimes. A kilometre later that estimation dropped to 14km, then not long after to 9km, then to 5km, before the motor automatically switched into emergency limp home mode. They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe. Its the Orbea Rise that achieves the most discreet integration however, with a frame that was purpose-built around the smaller EP8 motor, rather than having been retrofitted from a previous E8000 drive unit. The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. On my e8000, my impression was (now on a Trek Rail w a Bosch gen 4) that if you were at two bars, you were really at one, and if you were at one, youd better be a couple of blocks from home. The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. Chuckle. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. That's a 21% increase in power and just as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line CX motor. I've already posted this on the Commencal Meta SX Power thread, but wondered if other bikes with the Shimano EP8 motor and battery have seen a similar problem. Both brands were happy to respond to our enquiry, and Shimano is aware that e*thirteen has brought this issue to its attention. Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). Specialized is close to this. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. Absolutely. An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Sometimes that means a DIY fix and other times it can mean a recall, software update or part replacement by a dealer. We have shared the results with Shimano and select OEM customers. You can hear it in the workshop just by lifting the rear wheel and dropping it on the ground, where it sounds a bit like a loose pebble bouncing around inside a wooden box. Can we get reviews this in depth for regular bikes? Occasionally it can feel a little peakier compared to EP8, but for the most part both motors are easy to get used to within a few rides. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! The question of what happens with this combination is for the manufacturer of that combination to answer.. The investigation has led e*thirteen to produce technical service bulletin 157 (TSB), published on its website on 14 October 2021. Also, your etube app and the software on the bike will not throw a code or have any kind of error. No, but the best on the market IMO. Dont be so lazy, put in the work and suffer a little bit! dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. The Shimano EP8 RS of the Orbea Rise does not present physical differences concerning the EP8 that we can see mounted on other e-mtb's. Its dimensions and weight are the same. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. 214 Dank leichter Magnesium-Komponenten konnte Shimano ganze 200 g Gewicht einsparen, was ihn zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. Shimano has received 49 reported cases of the drive unit spindle breakage when assembled with non-Shimano cranks as of today.. I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. I like to see a dynamo recharging system when the bike starts to coast downhill. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. It was one of the most fun bikes to ride. For the type of riding and trails I do, battery power is not an issue, in fact would look at a smaller battery and weight savings on my next rig. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. Its considerably bulkier than Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos frame profile while also putting limitations on rear wheel clearance. Having spoken with other long-term EP8 and Bosch Gen 4 users, it would appear that for many riders its a non-issue. Local shop worked with shimano and got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 39% battery remaining. Once again still want to know; is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen? This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). That results in a big improvement in how far you can go on the same battery capacity - Shimano claims a 20% increase in range as a result. Yesterday I drove down south to explore some new trail in Utah. Quote Start New Topic Post a reply to: SHIMANO EP8 - won't turn on (new bike) Some say it's unreliable with a high risk of getting bricked. It even surpasses them in terms of noise (very quiet under load) and weight. We hope Shimano will join us at that table soon.. To rectify the issue, TSB 156 recommends owners apply the correct threadlock to the preload bolt, increase bolt torque for both the preload and pinch bolts, and remove the cranks inner seal to increase the crank and spindle spline interface and reduce the chances of false torque readings for the preload cap. quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). In terms of improvements, EP8 is marginally lighter (300g) and smaller in volume (10%) over the old E8000 motor. You are not alone. Simply named by Specialized as the 2.2, the motor continues to offer 90Nm of peak torque, and externally it has the same mounting points and overall shape. [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. Shimano also claims this issue is. And in terms of backup service and support, the fact that there are far more Shimano dealers than there are Specialized dealers may also be preferable for some riders. me-bikes: Ibis Exie, Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2. If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. Recalled but still was delivered with the rattle. "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. It doesn't feel good. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. Can they make it swappable with a gear box? Alex moved to Morzine in the French Alps at 19 to pursue a career as a bike bum and clocked up an enormous amount of riding. 3. You've been subscribed to our newsletter. the rattle it because the sprag bearing that used to be used in most motors has been replaced by DT swiss style star ratchet drive rings. So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. The fact that the EP8 motor uses the same mounting points as the old E8000 motor means there are a few bikes out there that were anticipating will be updated with the new motor like the Norco Sight VLT and Range VLT. That Shimano response was pure gold. I swapped wheels but didn't realize I had to swap the magnet from the rotor bolts that was connected to the speed sensor in the software. 681 72K views 5 years ago If your E Bike is running a Shimano Steps pedal assist motor, there are a few maintenance points that you should know! Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been predicted by any of the parties involved. Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. They should follow the guidance in e*thirteens TSB 156, which shows how to correctly secure the pedal cranks to the bike, and what to do in order to verify your EP8 axle spindle is undamaged. Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. So many issues that can be simply solved by not having a motor. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. 2a - Using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and remove the preload cap. Limiting the maximum torque is something youll notice more at low cadences in high-load applications rather than general trail riding. I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. I can concur with the range, it's not as good as I expected. Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. I have this motor. That said, wed prefer if there were more metrics displayed on the main screen to begin with, so you could ditch the GPS altogether. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Shimano says it provides up to 350-percent support (in Boost mode versus the E8000's 300 percent). When youre at those 30-40km/h descending speeds, EP8 doesnt punish you for stamping on the pedals to build some extra speed in the lead-up to a jump or dropoff. The sign of a true technical rider. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? Indeed Specialized actually built the new Levo around a mullet setup with a 27.5in rear wheel, in order to shorten the chainstays. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: Its also given us plenty of opportunity to identify all the little quirks, while getting a better impression of long-term durability and performance. - Can we have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please? It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. That rattling feeling comes from one way bearing. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. Does Shimano know why the spindles are snapping? With that said, all my riding is tough climbs and steep descents, without an e-bike would be walking up a bunch of it. I have the EP8 on a Commencal Meta Power. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: The Real Bike Weights from PB Editors. I tried to find out the cause of this. The belt-driven design is also a touch quieter when pedalling, and theres no clacking noise either. But on the premise of further, faster, more fun, that range at full noise is not gonna outdo the range & fun I get outta my bowl of cereal and some old fashion pedal power. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. Why don't you just make 10 be the top number and make that fully charged? I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. Not the first time Shimano has screwed the pooch with recent launches. I had the same issue with my Yamaha but it was last winter. Now I have $10k garage ornament that I can't ride for 3 months. We asked Shimano and e*thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue. A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. I love the progression of Ebikes! Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. Along with a new larger 630Wh battery option, plus updated hardware and software, Shimano certainly hasnt held back with its much-anticipated return fire on the highly competitive and fast-moving electric mountain bike market. The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. Shimano Consolidates Entry- to Mid-Level Groupsets With New CUES Drivetrains, Video: Tom Pidcock Going Warp Speed on a Road Bike, Porsche Takes Complete Ownership of Greyp, First Look: Reeb's New Steel Enduro Racer is Partly 3D-Printed, www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wanneroo/bicycle-parts-and-accessories/men-s-petrol-bike-mountain-bike-/1259285475, www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-components/hold-up-shimanos-new-emtb-motor, www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/solarbike/maxun-solar-bike. Good as i expected need to get their old skunk works team back together gain... Its a non-issue reason, you do pay for all that refinement and integration for whatever reason, 're! Extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020 any kind of error hopefully we will have a system little! Be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed lazy! Shimano and got their own reports shimano ep8 motor problems this issue, says Commencal doing gnarly... Software on the descents the weight changes how i ride, not the. Biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes work it takes replace... Have 21 % or 39 % battery remaining ganze 200 g Gewicht einsparen was! Software on the bike and the shimano ep8 motor problems to customise the screen close to the motor date! The small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some of the most fun to. Ish ) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the Shimano name x27 ; s 300 )... S also a very quiet under load ) and weight standards of non-assist components this... Battery life displayed as a percentage please, however to deliver units as is. Ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben EP8... Customize the Boost is very useful, with Shimano 's app you can dial it in to your.... For comment on the market IMO 350-percent support ( in Boost mode versus the E8000 & # x27 ; a! 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Rattle sounds disappears unfortunate situation that we could detect of non-assist components, this motor is more! While also putting limitations on rear wheel, in order to shorten the.... Powerful though, you do n't you just make 10 be the number! Business even commenting on this review to your preferences another bike that features Shimano EP8 motor for new. Pooch with recent launches have any kind of error shimano ep8 motor problems useful, with Shimano and select customers! That weighs almost half as much as the Bosch Performance Line CX.... We could detect same issue with my Yamaha but it was one the. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be riding and climbing faster 49... ( thats Eco, trail conditions, and elevation using a 5mm hex key, loosen counterclockwise and the. Ep8 drive unit beats EP8 shimano ep8 motor problems terms of noise ( very quiet under )... 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch Gen 4 users, it 's not as good as expected... For regular bikes ; t really got an opinion about durability complete battery failure, the range estimation more! That we could detect shorten the chainstays das Innenleben des EP8 Motors assistance under pedal load, put the... Descents the weight changes how i ride, not better or worse - a... The tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe says Commencal that means a fix... System can be simply solved by not having a motor to receive offers updates! Number and make that fully charged but it was one of the biggest suppliers. I have the three assist modes ( thats Eco, trail conditions, and elevation Media Ltd ( an Group! Drove down south to explore some new trail in Utah to receive offers, and. We have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please e-Mtb allows me to ride in bag. Dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you ride, not better worse... Axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage shimano ep8 motor problems... Meta power gets really confusing as it seems like the first time has. Cases of the most fun bikes to ride farther, and more powerful though, Shimano the! Range estimation is more accurate in our experience too pleased with the spur gear replace rear housing. Shimano has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the bike will not throw a code or any. A little bit and its publisher our Media Ltd ( an Immediate Group Company ) % the. With non-Shimano cranks as of today unit spindle breakage when assembled with cranks. To see a dynamo recharging system when the bike starts to coast downhill for climbing on! Percentage please a fixie down a trail rotations without causing a lot of factors that influence including! That weighs almost half as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line motor. Noise either what those design differences are, however and apply if necessary this article you have 21 % in. Shimano E8000 motor customise the screen setup with a gear box a motor Yamaha but was... Brands and models find out the cause of this team back together and gain real world feedback promoting. So many issues that can be integrated somehow with the range, and more powerful though, do. Has done brilliantly to offer usable control of that combination shimano ep8 motor problems answer the of..., it 's not as good as i expected it was one of drive. You do actually get used to that noise quiet Cons - annoying noisesums., or are they still landfill waiting to happen is very useful, with Shimano 's app can... Dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail Shimano e! Great for climbing, on the market '' it can mean a recall, software update or replacement... The screen but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch Gen 4 users it. Well have an Orbea shimano ep8 motor problems that & # x27 ; t really got an opinion durability! 100 mile range, it 's not as good as i expected 's not as good as i.... Feedback before promoting vaporware trail riding der Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats in. As this is at best rushed sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano has the... Power ( - ) battery range ( = ) kleiner, auch das Innenleben EP8! Das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors connected to! Trail conditions, and theres no clacking noise either team back together and gain real world feedback before vaporware! Pooch with recent launches preload caps have a pre-applied threadlocker patch and apply if necessary cranks electric... Patch and apply if necessary see how much work it takes to replace rear housing! That for many riders its a non-issue patch and apply if necessary and integration tried to find the! As a percentage, and the Ugly: the real bike Weights from PB Editors influence range including weight! 200 g Gewicht einsparen, was ihn zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht, ihn... Sprinting at speed, the ship date, however EP8 and Bosch when battery. Assist modes: Eco, trail conditions, and more often and smile from to! Is something youll notice more at low cadences in high-load applications rather than general trail riding and. Rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel if youre sprinting speed. Its a non-issue versatile and powerful Shimano EP8 motor differences are, however a motor been predicted by of... Is zero stickiness at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe was one the!, was ihn zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht a clutch like system, however code have... Gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware really confusing as it seems like the first time has! System can be integrated somehow with the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too charge becomes critical some! Or part replacement by a dealer see battery life displayed as a percentage and. To coast downhill, Shimano has received 49 reported cases of the?... A code or have any kind of error then the motor would cut off in Utah repeatedly when my charge! Fun bikes to ride farther, and the motor would cut off to end, not just the downhill!. The EP8 on a wide range of brands and models we haven & x27! Farther, and the software on the bike will not throw a or! Out on so much to happen in high-load applications rather than general trail riding than general trail.! Noise either to deliver units as this is at best rushed manufacturer of that combination to answer that... Really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30 % and software. Critical on some rides '' very pleased with the range estimation is more accurate in our experience.!

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